One of my readers alerted me that Ed Young addressed the WFAA report in front of his church. I listened to a lot of it, and here are some notes in case you are interested:
- The plane is addressed around the 5:00 mark
- The house around 7:00
- Retirement and investments around 8:24
- His publishing company around 9:20
- Salary around 10:20
- Members of the board addresses the issue around the 12:00 mark
Even though he discusses his salary, he doesn’t mention exactly what the church pays him or if he is allowed a parsonage allowance, but then again I didn’t listen to the entire 25 minute clip, so maybe he or the two board members addressed it, and I think it would be something one could find on the church’s website.
Seems like he is trying to get out in front of this story and gloss it over to keep the money coming, but I am not too worried because I am just trying to keep my own efficiency apartment in from burning down, keep a job, and not freeze to death. That being said, everything about this story stinks.
I'm not sure what to think about all of this. What's true? I'm not sure. However, I do struggle with the idea of a pastor living a lifestyle of the "elite". He does have a 10,000 ft house estimated at $1.5 million in value. That's far more excessive than what I consider a "parsonage " to represent. Why does a pastor need a house that big? What does that represent to his members and others he is trying to reach? And if the $1MM annual salary is true, then I believe that is excessive too.
"Why does a pastor need a house that big?"
These kind of statements kill me. Why does he being a pastor matter? You have a better argument wondering why anyone with only one kid at home needs a house this big.
It matters because pastors live off the donations or tithes of their church. You are fooling yourself if you don't think this matters, it matters how a pastor spends his or her funds. I think you are biased and sensitive because of your profession, and that's understandable, but it most certainly matters.
When people give their hard earned money to the church, they do so with the belief that it will be spent wisely for the betterment of the church, not on extravagance. That's not saying pastors need to live in poverty or sacrifice when it comes to every purchase, but there is a double standard for those that are called, I know, I am a pastor.
If one is called to serve in the ministry, there are going to be certain sacrifices he or she will have to make, we all know that. Seeing a pastor drive a Hummer as opposed to something more modest, like a nice Ford truck just doesn't seem like something Jesus would be proud of. There's nothing wrong with Ed living in a nice house in a nice neighborhood, but in a mansion that's about 7000 square feet seems to be excessive. Is it ok for a CEO to drive a Hummer or a live in a mansion? Yes, that CEO is not living off tithes and offerings.
Just my two cents coming from one that serves in West Texas.
Well said WestTxClergy! I agree that a pastor should not live in povery or under severe financial stress to provide for his family, but living in a home and on an annual income significantly higher than the majority of his congregation or the rest of the world for that matter just doesn't make sense to me.
Don't forget that the CEO is not part of a "non-profit" organization. A CEO can buy whatever he wants. A business (also called a company, enterprise or firm) is a legally recognized organization designed to provide goods and/or services to consumers. Ethical or not, a business is there to serve the needs of the consumer. The people that control and make ethical choices for that business define business ethics. The government sets the guidelines for most of these ethics.
This is the problem with Ed Young and most pastors today; the business end is taking president over the ethical. (Just because you could buy a jet, Bentley or even a Rolex does not mean that you SHOULD or that it is ethical to do so).
WestTXClergy: don’t forget you too are a part of the body of Christ, your opinion matters as much as pastors in the “big D”.
I disagree, but not for the reason you may think. You can search your scriptures through and through and you will NOT find verses that tell churches to pay pastors less than comparable organizations.
But my argument isn't that pastors should make more or equal to others. It's that moderation is something that all people should live under. Because I receive income from a non-profit, for-profit, or from tithes and offerings shouldn't determine what I spend my money on. It's an all-people's issue. So again, before everyone gets mad at me; let me explain. It's not that ED should live in excess, it's that all of us should beware of excess.
and my WestTXClergy friend isn't the only West Texas clergy in this discussion 🙂 Llano Estacado, baby!
If Jonathan is sensitive and biased because of his profession, it probably goes in the opposite direction you might think. I can tell you as someone who shares in his budget planning, (yep, I'm the wife) he "lives simply, so that others may simply live." Giving to the less fortunate and living in a moderate manner so that he can give even more is a value to him.
The real concern is that when Christians start to point fingers at other Christians saying "so and so shouldn't live selfishly and with such extravagance"…does it excuse other believers who don't hold the title of "pastor" to live with only regard to self? To spend and spend and spend on self without regard for feeding the hungry, caring for orphans and widows, and ministering to those Jesus cared so deeply about? Let's be a people who focus on what we should do instead of what we should not.
Ok, why does ANYONE need a house that big?
That's a great question…and the better question.
For those of us who don't care how big of a house he has, how big is too big then? And who decides how big is too big? If you say "3000 square feet should be big enough for a family of 6", and if Ed Young's house is 3001 square feet, would you still be making such a fuss?
I don' t think that he makes a million dollars. However, if the salary was "reasonable" to the average member, he should not have a problem just saying "I make X-number of dollars a year". Total Transparency, his aquarium is still a little cloudy to me. It amazes me that there are pastors that pull down six figures (or more). How many people are lucky enough to make more than avg. (50-60K/YEAR) have a job where you get to write off so much of your expenses, and take off work whenever you want jettin' round the world?
I quit this church years ago because he seemed like he was going the way of the tele-evangelist, i.e. custom clothing, driving a huge Hummer, personal security guards, ect. ect. Not to mention everything being Ed branded in the "pastor Ed" store in the lobby of the church.
Pastor Ed what did Jesus do to the money changers in the temple?
When this church becomes more about saving the lost I will believe that he is a good person again.
Personal security guards? Are you serious?
Yes I am sure of this, from two sources within the church. I understand that people threaten the life of pastors and people in the public eye. I also have faith that GOD will not let me die until it is my time.
I feel guilty to be so judgmental about this situation. But the transparency in my church let's me know where every tithe and offering is spent, and we couldn't abide a pastor living in a 10,000sq ft house (which by the way, doesn't include the 2,100sq.ft barn that Pastor Ed dismissed in his story) that we gave a $250K "parsonage allowance" to in addition to a salary. But then again, I don't go to a mega-church that obviously generates huge amounts of cash. It's the same argument that we get with the CEO on Wall Street… "it's a small percentage of the overall money generated", "you have to pay the best to get the best", etc. But in this case, it is a PASTOR.
I am not questioning the work that this church community does in the world, for all I know, they probably do a LOT of good. But if Pastor Ed's parsonage allowance could go to a program that would create 100 wells to provide water to those throughout the world without potable water, then wouldn't that be a much better use of the the church's (God's) money? There's always a chance for a church to do MORE.
To those members who feel persecuted by the media and commenters here, please understand this isn't coming from jealousy or judgment of your church community. But as an outsider, I see actions from your leader that don't gel with any sort of reality I experience in my church. Huge homes, cars, forming corporations and trusts, jetting around and the like seem about projecting an image of success more than anything having to do with God. Your church could be an even more incredible force to not only save souls but to save lives in this world. Take back your church and get involved with how it is being managed.
I am a member of Fellowship Church and after my assessment of this situation, I agree with you Dude. Everybody has to decide which church home is right for them. Prior to this even coming out, I was in the process of evaluating if Fellowship Church is the right church home for me going forward based on what I value in a church. I will continue my evaluation and make a determination not in an attempt to judge Ed, but to ultimately determine which church I am comfortable with in terms of the teaching, size and leadership approach.
I know I contradicted myself about the "feeling guilty" and then saying "isn't coming from jealousy" but what I meant was the call to action wasn't coming from judgment but rather a celebration of the awesome opportunity that your church has to REALLY change lives in the world and after.
The man has a wife and 4 kids (teenagers) that's why he needs a spacious house. He's got a dinky TV that barely fits in his TV cabinet. He's a successful author, and maybe he's made wise decisions with life choices that has earned him nice things. It seems his church see the money more than him. I've never heard Ed Young say, "If you send me some money you will be healed, I will pray for you, and or you will be saved." Though I have heard televangelist make those claims. If there was something truely despicable going on why didn't WFAA's informant go through the proper channels, like the church police or something… I don't know. – Should you go to the media when you're being robbed? Do you go to the media when you are being abused? Do you go to the media when you get into a traffic accident? No, 'cause that's improper. If Ed Young's wealthy and you don't approve, stop crying and go get rich yourself!
If Ed Young's wealthy and you don't approve, stop crying and go get rich yourself!
Wow….just…. wow.
Yes, Andrew! If you don't approve of extravagant wealth, go get extravagantly wealthy! While you're at it: If you don't approve of blogging, stop crying and go start a blog! If you don't approve of loud eaters, eat loudly! If you don't approve of people referring to themselves in the first person then… ah, George doesn't think it's worth it.
You and Dude know what I meant.
Stop focusing on one man's wealth or lack there of and handle your own responsibilities. If it's true it's true if not then it's gossip. The way these accusations have been made public- through the media by a voice scrambled shrouded man appears as slander. If you and Dude don't get that well then have fun being "sheep" and have a good day.
Bottom line, Ed Young has established a number of "for profit" corporations which flow from the benefit of pastoring Fellowship. The IRS has very strict regulations regarding nonprofit and churches. The bookstore primarily contains publications which benefit Ed Young, personally–not Fellowship (the for profit publishing company "Creality" originally started as "nonprofit) which generates "profit" for Ed Young, and not Fellowship. The trips Ed Young makes are for his own "Creative Ministry", "Creative Pastors", "Ed Young Ministries", etc other organizations run by Ed Young, but do not generate money for Fellowship, directly. The jet is used to transport Ed to give conferences, not for Fellowship, but for himself and those entities he has created and to help other pastors prosper as he has.
The so-called (non-voted) "board" consists of two other pastors (other churches, other cities), and 2 others who are member insiders of Fellowship, and no congregation members other than the original insiders who are permitted to know what is going on. No accounting for the congregation. If a pastor commands such a high salary and parsonage allowance–why would the Church permit this man to use the Church for his own personal profit and gain. It's wrong, and Ed knows its wrong. Refer to: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf:
"Inurement and Private Benefit
Inurement to Insiders
Churches and religious organizations, like all exempt
organizations under IRC section 501(c)(3), are prohibit
ed from engaging in activities that result in inurement of
the church’s or organization’s income or assets to insiders
(i.e., persons having a personal and private interest in the
activities of the organization). Insiders could include the
minister, church board members, officers, and in certain
circumstances, employees. Examples of prohibited inure
ment include the payment of dividends, the payment of
unreasonable compensation to insiders, and transferring
property to insiders for less than fair market value. The
prohibition against inurement to insiders is absolute;
therefore, any amount of inurement is, potentially,
grounds for loss of tax-exempt status. In addition, the
insider involved may be subject to excise tax. See the
following section on Excess benefit transactions. Note
that prohibited inurement does not include reasonable
payments for services rendered, payments that further
tax-exempt purposes, or payments made for the fair
market value of real or personal property.
An IRC section 501(c)(3) organization’s activities must
be directed exclusively toward charitable, educational,
religious, or other exempt purposes. Such an organiza
tion’s activities may not serve the private interests of any
individual or organization. Rather, beneficiaries of an
organization’s activities must be recognized objects of
charity (such as the poor or the distressed) or the com
munity at large (for example, through the conduct of
religious services or the promotion of religion). Private
benefit is different from inurement to insiders. Private
benefit may occur even if the persons benefited are not
insiders. Also, private benefit must be substantial in
order to jeopardize tax-exempt status.
Ok, people why is ok for the head of major corporation to earn a good salary, but a person who a large leads a church and coming from a family who is in ministry is a 24/7 job to not earn a good salary. If you worked 24/7, getting calls at all hours including 2:00 am in the morning to attended to church business whether it be someone in the hospital or some emergency, your family is put second due to your duties, you always have people sending you hate mail, you do funerals, you do weddings, you have to lead, you have to manage, you have to ravel, you have spend 80 or more hours preparing your weekly message and ever person that works, the Pastor along with their family literally lives under a billion watching eyes of the community in everything they do, judging everything they do, they almost become prisoners of the community and earns good money, thinks that their pastor should live in poverty, drive a junker car, not take a vaction with their family.
But here is a fact that people don't look at. Many pastors receive minimal pay from the church. They earn their money from the books they writer, that they author, the messages they copyright that they are able to sell on audio or video, speaking engagements, and other sources that people never look at the facts. Many people are motivational speakers that get paid to speak at conventions and at companies and a lot of pastors do this, should a pastor be paid less for the books they sell, for the audio messages they deliver, and for the speaking engagements.
Being a Pastor is the hardest job in the world and people should not judge and it is not for you to worry about where your tithe money goes, because from your wallet, it is going to God and God sees what you are giving.
Most people could not do this Pastors job, especially a church the size of Fellowship. Now people are trying to compare him to Robert Tilton who Ed Young is not even in the same catagory. But Olie Anthony does not like any TV minister. .
But it is ok for CEOs and Executives to have jets, helicopters, several houses, hundreds of millions of dollars while they are robbing the company and your 401k and stock is going down the tubes, but if a person who works directly for the God who created everything has anything, then everyone is out to attack them. As for the Jet, personally if you are as well known as someone like Ed Young, then commercial air is not a easy option for security reason, plus he is able to continue working on the plane, he can have his family with him and remeber that Fellowship has churches at locatoins outside of Texas and Ed Young is going to major speaking engagements as a speaker, where he was even a key note speaker at the National Assembly of God National Meeting, he also travels around the world preaching, media book tours, doing missions work, and do God's work. Would he have time to wait in line at every air port , then imagine foriegn air ports, and he would end up spending more money on security and plane tickets than what the jet cost to lease
!I have heard from people that work at the church who say that he works all the time, from sun up to sun down and while the church may be tax exempt, he publishing business is not, his income from the church and every other source is taxed by the IRS, he pays income tax like everyone else.
I have worked for a church before and what people don't see is the grinding hard work that flat drains you as a staff member and the Pastor has all the wieght. The Pastor also has a Board that he has to answer to, just like a company, not like they just go out and start a church and run the entire show.
I would say before anyone runs to judgement, to look at the facts. Also who really cares about a person's financial status if they are making positive impacts on the world and people. I would not want to be a Pastor, because people don't want to see their Pastor be successful, then why are you even listening to a Pastor who is impacting your life, giving you a positive message, a church that is providing services for your family, for the community, and those in need around the world. You know church is free, they don't force you to pay anything and people want to complain giving just 10% to God who blessed them to even have the money, the job, and all that they have. I fear the Lord and I have no place to cast judgement, the bible says to tithe 10% of my income, that is God, not a pastor and God will deal with the rest.
Why do people get enjoyment out of destroying another, even when they don't have the full story and there is two sides to every story. People called Noah crazy, critized him when he built the ark and when the flood came those poeple drowned.
No matter who you are…you serve somebody, whether it is God, the Devil, the money, the job, or the world.
I read some people's opinions about how big a pastors house should be or what kind of car they should drive. Well they work hard for their money also, harder than the majority of the rest of the world. So when can we start having your manager at work deciding what your family can live in, what you can drive, and what you can wear. Also unless Jesus comes down to you or calls you everyday telling you that he does not think your pastor should be driving a Hummer, then how do you know.
You know God sent Moses to rescue his people from slavery and after all the miracles that God performed through Moses, they cursed Moses for delivering them from the slavery. You can't make people happy, people do two things best complain and judge!
Why does Olie Anthony not go after the richest preacher T.D. Jakes who is a great pastor, but instead preys on other churches. Olie Anthony is known for being a watch dog or more of an attack dog that goes after any ministry that is large or successful. Olie Anthony obviousliy has nothing in life to do.News 8 Dallas & Olie Anthony have now created damage that brings truth that it is not innocent until proven guilty, it is guilty until you prove yourself innocent & they can spin any lie about any person & it will never go fully away.
Ed Young began pastoring Fellowship Church when it was in a shopping strip & his unique leadership grew Fellowship into a 20,000 member church. Yet people critize pastors who are successful, but not athletes & stars who get paid millions when we the fans have to pay higher ticket prices to be entertained to cover their salary & church is free entertainment, a free service, that does good for the community.Most of your icon Stars are breaking laws, flaunting their riches,& take rather than back.Most pastors like Ed Young put more money back into the church than they ever receive.Yet we don't critize the bank CEO this year that made $18 million,but we critize a man of God who has dedicated his life to helping others.
How much is a sermon worth if it changes a life, how much should God pay his direct leaders that lead us? You don't pay your pastor, God does and in Ed Youngs case,he made money through his own talents of writing,art,authoring,speaking, & through business,but in this world people don't like pastors to get paid for the other talents they do, they want them to work for free.So here is my question if you were born in a rich family, thus making you rich, do you believe you should give up all your money if you want to be a pastor,because everyone thinks a pastor should be broke.That would be a real good leader to listen to,someone who is broke teaching you how to be successful, that would not make much sense.
I laugh at people who say why does the Pastor not give more of his money to help others which was posted. How about all those who feel that way give more of their stuff also to help others.It is always about Pastors that should sacrafice above anyone else in everything.Anyone who thinks a Pastors life is easy,that they can take off work anytime has had no experience in a Pastors life.I was raised in the life,the church & demanding people consume every part of your life to where a Pastor's family is second.I stress at home on Pastor, the phones calls at all hours, 7 days a week, & they can't even enjoy a vacation as the phone continues to ring.Imagine every day getting a call or letter telling how bad or hated you are or a person placing a curse on you,that is the real life of a pastor that I have witnessed first hand.They carry the weight of their church,the members & world on their shoulders they don't get a 9-5 job.Just look at the comments being made now,they receive these all the time that no one ever knows about.
Your Pastors need love & words of encouragement.We have let a person take something beautiful that has changed so many lifes around the world for good,helped so many families, helped so many marriages,& has helped people, turning no one away & tried to smear it & cause pain & cast filth upon it.Jesus said let those of you without sin cast the first stone & we throw stones at Pastors & their churches all the time.I bet most are church hoppers,one thing they don't like & they are off swearing about that church onto the other.How many people beyond the Pastor & Church are the words of judgement hurting, how many lifes impacted, & we will have to answer before God for the judgement we cast upon them.We will be judged as we so judged.I hope that we pray & love one another instead of being what we have become.
Very controversial issue. See <a href="http://www.CompensationOpinion.com.” target=”_blank”>www.CompensationOpinion.com.
Should Ed Young take any kind of rebuke? Or ride from it?
Ridin’ from Rebuke
By Robert Winkler Burke
Of inthatdayteachings.com
Copyright 2/4/09
Isaiah 28: 1-3; Rev. 3:19
Ridin’ from rebuke,
Ah’m so free!
Gallopin’ from rebuke,
Ah’m on TV!
Ah’m a televangelist,
Boy howdy,
A hat’n saddle cowboy,
Not dowdy!
For ten, no twenty,
Maybe fifty years,
Me and mah compadres,
Been swilling beers.
The beers of intoxicating self-glory,
The wine of ME and MINE!
Broadcastin’ strong drink delusions,
Drunkards we all, divine!
Mah duster is religiosity,
Pard, buy me a drink,
Hand over your money, son,
Don’t you dare think.
Think what a bank heist,
Mah game actually is,
Renegade outlaws runnin’,
God’s broadcastin’ biz.
Ah have this here strong faith-hunch,
Y’all’s seed cash pronto-quick becomes mine,
Believe mah faith mantras, NOW, son,
God, not me and mine, will times it back fine!
Ah LOVE this outlaw math,
With every dollar mah faith is reborn,
Y’all’s coin increases belief,
Of me and mine, that is, not your’n!
AH AM the believer’s leader!
Ah ain’t never wrong,
Runnin’ from rebuke,
God’s posse ‘tain’t strong.
Support mah babble-on, anti-chastisement,
Non-rebuke charade,
YOU, Ah don’t know son, but me and mine,
Shor’ ‘nuff, got it made!
And love, Lordy Lordy, heaven above,
Jes’ why kin we never repent?
God ain’t rebukin’ whom He don’t love,
So’s we ride on, God absent!
Ask me now, friend, why should God love us,
We rebels of His way?
We take from His spiritual orphans and widows,
Who give us their pay.
So’s we ride hard,
From God’s missing rebuke,
Happy we be,
With all we took!